When considering the origin of the Hellenes, often Thucydides' well-known statements in his so-called 'archaeology' serve as points of reference. The role Herodotus assigns to Homer and Hesiod goes beyond a mere statement about where the Hellenic gods originated. Nobody doubts that the gods are the core element of religion and that religion was seen as an integral part of Hellenic identity. Obviously, Thucydides wanted to show a way out of the violent conflicts of his day, but had no convincing tool with which to persuade his contemporaries not to hope for external support and thus believe in their superiority and ability to defeat the opponent. The Olympian order is based on a negotiated settlement of the various conflicts, loaded with long reaching histories. It is rarely noticed that at the beginning of the Iliad several groups of gods are in conflict with each other, like human beings.